Is it okay to like Twilight Princess again?

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#41

Post by The Missing Link » Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:40 am

Sir Bolt the Dragoon, post: 1486027, member: 34890 wrote:Let's not get caught up on semantics. The mix of TP's color palate, character models, environments, design choices, and official artwork give it a different feel to me than WW or OoT or even MM.
Throw us a bone here. And that feel is like what?
I tried playing TP last night and realized I've become an HD snob :-/.
TP is beautiful on an SD television. Not so much in HD.
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#42

Post by Sir Bolt the Dragoon » Tue Aug 26, 2014 1:13 pm

[QUOTE="The Missing Link, post: 1486052, member: 19860"]Throw us a bone here. And that feel is like what?[/QUOTE]
Well I would call it dark and gritty for a Zelda game, but apparently using that word in this context means I clearly am only considering the series from the perspective of a limited appreciation of its base elements.

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#43

Post by LOOT » Tue Aug 26, 2014 1:22 pm

Zelda 2 involved monsters out to drain Link's blood to resurrect Ganon

not as dark as some imp riding Wolf Link like a horsie

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#44

Post by Sir Bolt the Dragoon » Tue Aug 26, 2014 1:32 pm

Zelda 2 is also 8-bit sprite art. Sorry, that doesn't create the same atmosphere to me.

God forbid people have differing opinions, amirite?

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#45

Post by The Missing Link » Tue Aug 26, 2014 1:59 pm

So you're characterizing it as environmentally and realistically bleak?
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#46

Post by I am nobody » Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:09 pm

[QUOTE="The Missing Link, post: 1486052, member: 19860"]TP is beautiful on an SD television. Not so much in HD.[/QUOTE]

Even a lot of games from this last generation look like crap on an HD screen. It's suddenly really noticeable that they have barely any AA and the detail fade kicks in after about three feet.

Only hurts the ones that went for a realistic look, though. WW looks fantastic on any screen.

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#47

Post by Marilink » Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:11 pm

Didn't I explain this misunderstanding a page and a half ago?

[QUOTE="Marilink, post: 1485863, member: 23215"]^I think we're talking past each other. TP looks more gritty because "real is brown" and such, but it's certainly not gritty thematically. [/QUOTE]
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#48

Post by LOOT » Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:20 pm

[QUOTE="Sir Bolt the Dragoon, post: 1486069, member: 34890"]Zelda 2 is also 8-bit sprite art. Sorry, that doesn't create the same atmosphere to me.

God forbid people have differing opinions, amirite?[/QUOTE]
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#49

Post by Deepfake » Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:58 pm

[QUOTE="Marilink, post: 1486088, member: 23215"]Didn't I explain this misunderstanding a page and a half ago?[/QUOTE]
I'd already tried to talk about how we learn new words (and the use of this term is still fairly recent) through context, not by surfing the dictionary. The top definition on UD is "harsh, coarse, rough and unrefined, as in film depictions that portray life as it truly is, without false distortions, stylizations, or idealizations. Often, the realism is exaggerated such that the culture or society being portrayed appears more coarse than it really is." I'd say that one's especially incongruous to the Zelda series' themes overall, including TP. You certainly would have a lot less small-boy-saves-the-world even from the get-go if you were trying to adapt Zelda, which I'd give anyone in the matter of TP, yet the entirety of the game's tone is just about identical to the core of the whole series. In my experience, most people will agree that if TP had committed one crime, it was to not aspire towards change.

The only Zelda games I can think of which were entirely serious, start to finish, were The Legend of Zelda and Zelda II.

Regardless, "gritty" isn't really a word for the atmosphere of a game. If you wanted to go toward the more recent "grimdark" - that mostly deals with visual and aural themes. Zelda's always pitted the player against hordes of undead abominations and black magic, though, with skulls lying about everywhere and the player becoming so accustomed to them that he likely does not even consider the implications. If they do it all with some bright and 'cheerful' colors, well, I guess we'll just write that one off then? That implies a shallow appreciation for the core themes at hand, though.[DOUBLEPOST=1409108331,1409107798][/DOUBLEPOST][QUOTE="Sir Bolt the Dragoon, post: 1486069, member: 34890"]Zelda 2 is also 8-bit sprite art. Sorry, that doesn't create the same atmosphere to me.

God forbid people have differing opinions, amirite?[/QUOTE]
Check yourself, mate. That was realism at the time. Hence why he's got legs and he can aim high and low, and essentially everything in the game murders you on first go, etc.
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#50

Post by Deepfake » Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:40 am

[QUOTE="The Missing Link, post: 1486052, member: 19860"]TP is beautiful on an SD television. Not so much in HD.[/QUOTE]
It'd be fine if their DOF wasn't so low-res. It's one of the things that afflicts everything big Nintendo did during that era - Sunshine's a bit uglier for it, TWW is dripping with it. It's a blessing Prime didn't end up with it slapped on as well. At least in TWW it's necessary to obscure the bilboarding they'd used for the islands and such.

While texture resolution might be an especially obvious hindrance for "realistic" games, it's more to do with trying to cram detail in where their was none. Textures with smoother transitions age better. Hence why the desert in SM64 still looks pretty nice.
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#51

Post by LOOT » Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:36 am

Know what was really awesome about Zelda II was there WAS an atmosphere. Whenever you went on the world map you never knew when enemies would come out as a semi-random encounter, obstacles lie on map tiles, the encounter music was intense, for God's sake booting up your save file always started you in the palace where Zelda's lifeless comatose body lied to remind you "Hey, you gotta wake her."

[QUOTE="ARF! ARF! GOTCHA, post: 1486112, member: 25415"]Regardless, "gritty" isn't really a word for the atmosphere of a game. If you wanted to go toward the more recent "grimdark" - that mostly deals with visual and aural themes. Zelda's always pitted the player against hordes of undead abominations and black magic, though, with skulls lying about everywhere and the player becoming so accustomed to them that he likely does not even consider the implications. If they do it all with some bright and 'cheerful' colors, well, I guess we'll just write that one off then? That implies a shallow appreciation for the core themes at hand, though.[DOUBLEPOST=1409108331,1409107798][/DOUBLEPOST][/QUOTE]

The skulls in LttP, I never even noticed them as anything more than just substitutes for rocks.

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#52

Post by Deku Tree » Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:06 am

I love the Zelda 2 music so much.

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#53

Post by Deepfake » Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:06 am

Ditto that, it was a really nice departure and that opening theme is just the best.
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#54

Post by Marilink » Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:41 am

Zelda 2 in general is ballin'.
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#55

Post by Apollo the Just » Sat Aug 30, 2014 3:25 am

zelda ii dungeon theme is on my ipod and it is awesome
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#56

Post by ScottyMcGee » Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:04 am

All this Zelda II talk makes me want to replay it. I had a good run years ago - second to last dungeon, and it just got too hard for my stupid teenage gamer self. The thing I like about Zelda 2 is that it piles up what you've learned as you progress. The further you progress through the game, the longer of a walk it takes to get to where you last left off, testing your ability along the way like a cumulative exam.
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