About the timelines and all that

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About the timelines and all that

#1

Post by ScottyMcGee » Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:09 pm

I was doing some reflection while bored at work and realized that I actually really like what Nintendo did with the three timeline thing with Legend of Zelda.

At first I thought it was kind of dumb. It's a weird way of doing things, no doubt. Every other series ever has a strict canonical chronology of events. Even though the writers were more haphazard about the Zelda series and might not have had this in mind since the beginning, they took the time and effort nonetheless to place things in a way that made sense (at least to them).

In any other series, there's always canon and non-canon. Fans typically bitch about things that are canon and non-canon.

I had an epiphany when I realized that Nintendo is kind of saying "it's ALL canon." It all takes place sometime, somewhere. It's like tearing down the concept of "canon". Because in all honesty it means jack-****, yet fandoms can get crazy with that kind of thing.

But I took this a step further as to the meaning of "The Legend of Zelda." It doesn't really matter what happens in the timeline - there will always be a legend of Zelda no matter what. I think that's the real point of the series as a whole from a grand storytelling standpoint - that legends never die out. Often times they become something else or muddled (Hero of Time, Hero of Winds, Hero of such and such) but the drama of the three characters - Link, Zelda, Ganon - remain the same.
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#2

Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:32 pm

Pfft, canon matters for any decent story-based series. I don't want a bunch of random crap. shoveled down my throat. It doesn't have to be LotR or Star Wars level but it needs to have more consistency than Barney and Teletubbies.

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#3

Post by X-3 » Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:00 pm

Sounds like someone doesn't know about Barney lore...

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#4

Post by Random User » Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:54 pm

Though the canon of LoZ interests me greatly, I realise it's a pretty niche interest. Not a lot of people could care less. I think a lot of the fun of being a Nintendo fan was trying to figure out the Zelda timeline. Now the same is happening to the Pokemon games. People are split on whether there are alternate universes in its canon now.

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#5

Post by The Missing Link » Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:21 pm

ScottyMcGee, post: 1517537, member: 31048 wrote:At first I thought it was kind of dumb. It's a weird way of doing things, no doubt. Every other series ever has a strict canonical chronology of events. Even though the writers were more haphazard about the Zelda series and might not have had this in mind since the beginning, they took the time and effort nonetheless to place things in a way that made sense (at least to them)
This presumes that the thing actually does make sense. It's clever, don't get me wrong. It's a neat idea, yes. But as far as being sensible, no, I don't agree. If you really dig into the depths of the timeline, there are so many unanswered questions, so many plot holes, and so many seeming contradictions that... well...

Yes, off the cuff, it's a very neat and tidy handwave over the whole thing. It makes sense until you get too deep. And then it secretly falls apart underneath of it.
In any other series, there's always canon and non-canon. Fans typically bitch about things that are canon and non-canon
Welcome to the Internet. Also, fans are whinging about The Legend of Zelda's timeline. Still. To this day. This isn't different.
I had an epiphany when I realized that Nintendo is kind of saying "it's ALL canon."
Link's Crossbow Training and Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland are looking at you right now. Also the Super Smash Bros. And Super Mario RPG. And...

Let's take a step back and look at Avatar: The Legend of Korra, shall we? The ending is canon. The creators have said so. Do people care? No. You've got entire Tumblrs dedicated to the Makorra Preservation Initiative of 2014. People don't care necessarily about the difference between canon and non-canon. Or, when they do, they will at least go and happily disregard those minutiae and just write fanfiction about their preferred canon.
but the drama of the three characters - Link, Zelda, Ganon - remain the same.
Perhaps the reason that The Legend of Zelda is actually getting a little bit old and tiresome, really.
Revenant User, post: 1517563, member: 35827 wrote:could care less
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#6

Post by ScottyMcGee » Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:49 pm

[QUOTE="The Missing Link, post: 1517567, member: 19860"]


Link's Crossbow Training and Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland are looking at you right now. Also the Super Smash Bros. And Super Mario RPG. And...
[/QUOTE]

I thought about those but if someone were to really argue whether those are "canonical" then I think they're way off the deep end, like madman in an asylum scribbling on the walls.
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#7

Post by I am nobody » Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:02 pm

I used to be big on the timeline when I really only had access to Nintendo games, but now I'm kind of indifferent towards it. It's neat that it exists, but it doesn't form a narrative that really adds anything to the games or the series as a whole. WW and TP in particular raise the fairly major question of why so many other games seal Ganon away when apparently all you have to do is give him a good stabbing with the Master Sword to finish the job.

That said, I still like the obviously intentional connections like OoT-MM-WW or LoZ-AoL.

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"Not a lot of people could care less" is correct, though. The negative just moved.

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#8

Post by X-3 » Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:30 pm

They retconned LttP's story in LBW and SS turned everything into REINCARNATIONS. The Zelda canon means nothing to me.

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#9

Post by Random User » Mon Feb 09, 2015 8:18 pm

Smash Bros. is widely accepted to be non-canon to any series' characters as they are just toys being placed with.

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#10

Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:14 pm

[QUOTE="X-3, post: 1517578, member: 27765"]They retconned LttP's story in LBW and SS turned everything into REINCARNATIONS. The Zelda canon means nothing to me.[/QUOTE]

What do you mean they retconned LttP's story in LBW...?[DOUBLEPOST=1423534473,1423534389][/DOUBLEPOST]Also, TML is right. DBGT proves that fans only consider what they want to be canonical.

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#11

Post by Deepfake » Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:36 pm

Personally, I just wish they stayed loyal to the Zelda I and II lore. They had a good thing going, and neither LttP nor Link's Awakening got in the way of it. All of my rage for Ocarina.
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#12

Post by X-3 » Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:29 am

In LttP, Ganon has the full Triforce, before Link beats him up (by himself) and uses the Triforce to make things right. In LBW, the backstory is that Link and the sages sealed (not this **** again) Ganon, who apparently only had the Triforce of Power. It's dumb and doesn't make any sense.

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#13

Post by Deepfake » Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:44 am

^ It's especially lame because the early games already established that Ganon could be resurrected. There's no point to acting like he has to be sealed away to fight another day. They even had the Silver Arrows, not just a light magic substitute.
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#14

Post by I am nobody » Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:00 am

Not to mention that he kind of exploded at the end of aLttP. That's generally a better way to permanently destroy something than to seal it.

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#15

Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:28 am

^ Not in fantasy.

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#16

Post by Apollo the Just » Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:07 pm

My favorite thing about the official timeline is it was intended to give us all THE ANSWER ONCE AND FOR ALL but all it did was revive timeline arguments with a renewed vigor
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#17

Post by The Missing Link » Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:30 pm

[QUOTE="CuccoLady, post: 1519299, member: 30977"]My favorite thing about the official timeline is it was intended to give us all THE ANSWER ONCE AND FOR ALL but all it did was revive timeline arguments with a renewed vigor[/QUOTE]
This isn't surprising, CL. This is no different from 2001 after the release of Oracle of Ages and Oracle of Seasons. The official Zelda website released a timeline around then containing the first eight Zelda games, and it was widely decried as a complete load of crap. Let's see... what was it?

OoT - MM - LttP - OoA - OoS - LoZ - AoL - LA

(Though I honestly swear that at one time NoA claimed that one of the games took place in the middle of Link's Awakening as a result of the Dream Shrine.)[DOUBLEPOST=1424287810,1424287336][/DOUBLEPOST]Ha! I did remember it!

The "official" 2001 timeline was:

OoT - MM - LttP - OoA - OoS - LoZ - first half of AoL - LA - second half of AoL.
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#18

Post by Deepfake » Thu Feb 19, 2015 2:03 am

Real time line stuff: Zelda II (past) -> LttP (past) -> LttP -> LoZ -> Zelda II

Everything else: otaku fanfiction
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