Dear creepy heterosexual men guarding our bathrooms

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Dear creepy heterosexual men guarding our bathrooms

#1

Post by Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds » Sat May 21, 2016 8:05 pm

(found on FB, no idea who originally wrote it)
My entire life, I've been told to fear you in one way or another. I've been told to cover my body as to not distract you in school, to cover my body to help avoid unwanted advances or comments, to cover my body as to not tempt you to sexually assault me, to reject your unwanted advances politely as to not anger you. I've been taught to never walk alone at night, to hold my keys in my fist while walking in parking lots, to check the backseat of my car, to not drink too much because you might take advantage of me. I've been told what I should and shouldn't do with my body as to not jeopardize my relationships with you.

I've been warned not to emasculate you, to let "boys be boys", to protect your fragile ego and to not tread on your even more fragile masculinity. I've been taught to keep my emotions in check, to let you be the unit of measure for how much emotion is appropriate and to adjust my emotions accordingly. I've been taught that you're allowed to categorize women into mothers/sisters/girlfriends/wives/daughters but any woman outside of your protected categories is fair game.

So to those of you who think you're being helpful by "protecting" me and my fellow women, you're like a shark sitting in the Lifeguard chair. I wasn't uncomfortable until you showed up at the pool and the only potential predator I see is you.

Your mothers, sisters, girlfriends, wives and daughters don't need you to walk them to the bathroom for safety. Your fathers, brothers, friends and sons need to walk themselves away from their own double standards. Women are sexually harassed and sexually assaulted on school campuses, on the street, at their jobs, on the Internet, in their own homes, in ANY public place. And it has been excused or ignored for so long because of what you and I are taught from the first years of our interactions with each other: You, as a male, are not accountable for your own actions. It's MY responsibility, as a female, to not "provoke" you. But then you get to Knight-In-Shining-Armor your way through life for those in your protected categories and I am expected to applaud you. Why the outrage now over bathrooms? Why aren't you outraged every single day?

If you're telling me that there are high volumes of boys and men out there, in schools or in general, who are just waiting for a "loop hole" to sexually assault girls and women, we have bigger problems on our hands than bathrooms. The first problem would be your apparent lack of knowledge of how often it happens OUTSIDE of bathrooms, with no "loop holes" needed. This isn't about Transgender bathroom access. This is about you not trusting the boys and men in your communities and/or fearing that they're all secretly predators. Why do you have this fear? How many fathers have panicked when their daughters started dating because they "know how teenaged boys can be because they used to be one"? How many times have girls been warned "boys are only after one thing"? A mother can bring her young son into the women's restroom and that's fine but a father bringing his young daughter into the men's restroom is disturbing because men are assumed to be predators and "little girls" shouldn't be exposed to that.

So instead of picking up your sword and heading to Target or the girls' locker room to defend our "rights", why don't you start somewhere that could actually make a difference? Challenge your children's schools to end sexist dress codes and dress codes that sexualize girls as young as age 5. Advocate for proper (or any) sex education classes in all public schools by a certain grade level. Focus more on teaching your sons not to rape vs teaching your daughters how to avoid being raped. Stop asking "How would you feel if that was your mother or sister?" It shouldn't take the comparison to clue you in to what's right or wrong. Question why you're more worried about your daughter being around men than your son being around women in bathrooms and dressing rooms. Stop walking by Victoria's Secret with no problem but covering your son's eyes if a woman is breastfeeding in public. Stop treating your daughter's body as some fortress you're sworn to protect as if that's all she's got to offer the world.
Nonsense, I have not yet begun to defile myself.

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#2

Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Sat May 21, 2016 8:39 pm

Can this be viewed as anything other than an insult to heterosexual men? Of what value is this provocative article?

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#3

Post by Random User » Sat May 21, 2016 9:17 pm

I'm pretty sure you missed the topic of the post. The point it's trying to get across is that worrying about predators in bathrooms of all things is incredibly stupid. A lot of females are harrassed just about everywhere but the bathroom, and now even there one cannot feel comfortable because you have fellows creeping around like a gatekeeper for some reason.

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#4

Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Sat May 21, 2016 9:39 pm

No, I'm pretty sure I didn't miss the content of the post which is nothing short of antagonistic.

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#5

Post by Random User » Sat May 21, 2016 9:41 pm

I'm under the assumption it was someone's rant rather than an actual article.

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#6

Post by CaptHayfever » Sat May 21, 2016 10:19 pm

I did not feel insulted or antagonized by this at all, on account of the fact that it is very clearly directed towards a very specific subset of straight men. Context helps.

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#7

Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Sat May 21, 2016 11:29 pm

CaptHayfever, post: 1596446, member: 25169 wrote:I did not feel insulted or antagonized by this at all, on account of the fact that it is very clearly directed towards a very specific subset of straight men. Context helps.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"
Right, "context." No, there are generalized statements directed toward heterosexual men here. You can argue that because the title initially specifically refers to "creepy heterosexual men guarding our bathrooms" that none of the content of the post is actually generalized, but you can tell it definitely is.
I've been told to cover my body as to not distract you in school, to cover my body to help avoid unwanted advances or comments, to cover my body as to not tempt you to sexually assault me, to reject your unwanted advances politely as to not anger you.
Does this honestly sound to you like it's directed exclusively toward "bathroom guards," specifically? Sure seems more like general social commentary directed toward heterosexual men overall, not just "bathroom guards." Forgive me if I find your claim to the contrary to be disingenuous.

Beyond that, there's random, separate agendas being plugged here, like sexual education in public schools and stuff. It's like an SJW carpet bomb.

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#8

Post by Random User » Sun May 22, 2016 12:52 am

idk, to me it sounded targeted towards the kind of people that initiate unwanted advances towards females.

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#9

Post by X-3 » Sun May 22, 2016 2:08 am

IRHP gets offended too easily.

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#10

Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Sun May 22, 2016 2:32 am

Random User, post: 1596448, member: 35827 wrote:idk, to me it sounded targeted towards the kind of people that initiate unwanted advances towards females.
It's clearly talking about heterosexual men in general, most notably the part about temptation, but how about this one?
Focus more on teaching your sons not to rape vs teaching your daughters how to avoid being raped.
Here's the article implying young men need to be taught not to rape, as if they're just animals which need to be tamed. I guess it doesn't really matter what I point out, though. The article could call for SWM extermination and everyone would wiggle away from it just the same. "Well, statistically SWM deserve it." "Well, I'm a SWM and I don't mind being executed."

why bother
X-3, post: 1596449, member: 27765 wrote:IRHP gets offended too easily.
It's rubbing off on me. I think I've developed triggers.

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#11

Post by Random User » Sun May 22, 2016 3:05 am

I agree that the poster is a bit short-sighted in saying "teach your sons not to rape." Anyone with common sense knows that rape is awful. I would think the issue is that boys shouldn't be encouraged to objectify women. I was never very interested in that sort of thing, but even I recall plenty of times my mom told me I needed to get a girlfriend, or my uncle would ogle over some girl out in public, or some of my peers asking me who I thought the hottest girl in school was and what I rated others.

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#12

Post by Deepfake » Sun May 22, 2016 4:40 am

Yeah, obviously the problem isn't that bathrooms are a space where women are vulnerable. The root problem is the notion that there are rapists lurking around every corner and we can't prevent them, especially when the majority of interactions women are going to have with rape aren't even going to be these black-and-white scenarios. It's a cultural issue. You can say a law isn't going to prevent it, and that's true, it's a weak-ass bandaid and the culture isn't going to fix itself. That's why social reform is so important. I agree, the tone is aggressive, it's not something that's going to convince people easily. Let's ignore that for now and concern ourselves with the culture it's talking about.

Say you want to discourage bank robberies. You aren't going to make a law banning poor people from banks because you think they're at-risk, but you can acknowledge that crime is tied significantly to poverty and make efforts to engage poor communities and reach out to people who feel like they have no other options.

We do keep seeing folks saying things like 'What about the comfort of others' and the people whose concerns we supposedly care about are talking. Everyone would do well to listen, especially if they actually care about the comfort of others as more than a talking point.
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#13

Post by RinkuTheFirst » Sun May 22, 2016 2:00 pm

In my opinion, I'm way more uncomfortable with men standing outside the door or charging in to accuse someone of not being a woman than... you know, just another woman using the bathroom.

The real issue is of course the people who refuse to consider anyone who wasn't AFAB as a woman. I love the dancing around the real issue here.

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#14

Post by CaptHayfever » Sun May 22, 2016 6:19 pm

[QUOTE="I REALLY HATE POKEMON!, post: 1596447, member: 18119"]Right, "context." No, there are generalized statements directed toward heterosexual men here. You can argue that because the title initially specifically refers to "creepy heterosexual men guarding our bathrooms" that none of the content of the post is actually generalized, but you can tell it definitely is.[/QUOTE] Not title, context. The whole thing. The author is attacking the generalizations as much as she's attacking the creepy guys. If we eliminate the generalizations that men can't control their sexual urges, or that women are "asking for it", et cet, then male rapists won't have those excuses anymore (not to mention that without those conditioned excuses, men are less likely to become rapists), & women will have less to worry about.

Not sure what sex-ed has to do with SJWs, by the by. We have biology & health classes in schools; sex-ed seems like a reasonable part of those. Heck, I had comprehensive sex-ed in Catholic schools.

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#15

Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Sun May 22, 2016 6:58 pm

Random User, post: 1596453, member: 35827 wrote:I agree that the poster is a bit short-sighted in saying "teach your sons not to rape." Anyone with common sense knows that rape is awful. I would think the issue is that boys shouldn't be encouraged to objectify women. I was never very interested in that sort of thing, but even I recall plenty of times my mom told me I needed to get a girlfriend, or my uncle would ogle over some girl out in public, or some of my peers asking me who I thought the hottest girl in school was and what I rated others.
I agree, not raping should be common sense. I hope.

I don't think that looking at humans in such a way is "objectifying" them, however. It's natural, people are biologically wired for it. To treat others as if their only value stems from sex would be closer to objectification, but human beings are attracted to each other, that's just the way it is.
International Space Stalin, post: 1596455, member: 25415 wrote:Yeah, obviously the problem isn't that bathrooms are a space where women are vulnerable. The root problem is the notion that there are rapists lurking around every corner and we can't prevent them, especially when the majority of interactions women are going to have with rape aren't even going to be these black-and-white scenarios. It's a cultural issue. You can say a law isn't going to prevent it, and that's true, it's a weak-ass bandaid and the culture isn't going to fix itself. That's why social reform is so important. I agree, the tone is aggressive, it's not something that's going to convince people easily. Let's ignore that for now and concern ourselves with the culture it's talking about.

Say you want to discourage bank robberies. You aren't going to make a law banning poor people from banks because you think they're at-risk, but you can acknowledge that crime is tied significantly to poverty and make efforts to engage poor communities and reach out to people who feel like they have no other options.
Yeah, if we ignore the article's bad points then there is some good to be found here in the general message, which seems to be that these self-appointed "bathroom guardians" could make other people uncomfortable, despite their good intentions. While I wouldn't blame them for making sure their family is safe, assuming it is something the "protectee" (is this a real word?) is okay with, other people might wonder who the "creep" is that's hanging around. IMO this is just another byproduct of the confusion the issue is causing.
International Space Stalin]We do keep seeing folks saying things like 'What about the comfort of others' and the people whose concerns we supposedly care about are talking. Everyone would do well to listen wrote:care [/i]about the comfort of others as more than a talking point.
But listen to whom (mai engrish)? The people whose concerns we care about are talking, and from both sides. I don't go around digging up opinion pieces (I guess I can if that's better), but my sister is uncomfortable with the notion of using a restroom under such conditions, but she would be written off as a bigot, undeserving of being listened to. Let's not have selective hearing, now.
CaptHayfever, post: 1596502, member: 25169 wrote:Not title, context. The whole thing. The author is attacking the generalizations as much as she's attacking the creepy guys. If we eliminate the generalizations that men can't control their sexual urges, or that women are "asking for it, et cet, then male rapists won't have those excuses anymore (not to mention that without those conditioned excuses, men are less likely to become rapists), & women will have less to worry about.

Not sure what sex-ed has to do with SJWs, by the by. We have biology & health classes in schools; sex-ed seems like a reasonable part of those. Heck, I had comprehensive sex-ed in Catholic schools.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"
The author is simply likening young heterosexual men to animals, far as I can tell. And rapists don't need excuses, they're simply a convenient bonus. Rapists are going to rape like thieves are going to thieve. Also, people don't become rapists, either you are that type or you are not. Your logic is heavily flawed.

As for sex education, it appears to now be mandatory. It shouldn't be.

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#16

Post by Random User » Sun May 22, 2016 8:11 pm

[QUOTE="I REALLY HATE POKEMON!, post: 1596513, member: 18119"]I agree, not raping should be common sense. I hope.

I don't think that looking at humans in such a way is "objectifying" them, however. It's natural, people are biologically wired for it. To treat others as if their only value stems from sex would be closer to objectification, but human beings are attracted to each other, that's just the way it is.[/QUOTE]
Is it really just a natural thing that humans do? Because if it is that sucks. I never really had and interest in that kind of thing because I just wanted people to leave me alone and I expected they want the same. I wouldn't enjoy people discussing my physical appearance behind my back, especially in an explicit tone. That would mostly just creep me out, and I'm already paranoid of strangers enough.

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#17

Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Sun May 22, 2016 8:15 pm

[QUOTE="Random User, post: 1596518, member: 35827"]Is it really just a natural thing that humans do? Because if it is that sucks. I never really had and interest in that kind of thing because I just wanted people to leave me alone and I expected they want the same. I wouldn't enjoy people discussing my physical appearance behind my back, especially in an explicit tone. That would mostly just creep me out, and I'm already paranoid of strangers enough.[/QUOTE]

It unfortunately is, and I agree that it sucks.

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#18

Post by X-3 » Sun May 22, 2016 9:39 pm

Let me be frank though. As a creepy heterosexual man, I am pretty hurt by her words. People forget there's a heart underneath the heavy breathing.

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#19

Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Mon May 23, 2016 4:09 am

Worry not, for your heart shall be acknowledged as soon as you train teach your anima--, er, sons, not to rape, lest they take up the evil patriarchal traditions and become bathroom guardians themselves.

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#20

Post by ScottyMcGee » Mon May 23, 2016 11:23 am

Did someone say heavy breathing?

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