Improving your favorite games?

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Improving your favorite games?

#1

Post by Bomby » Thu Dec 19, 2019 5:00 pm

No matter how great a game is, there are always a few flaws that could have been fixed during the development. Maybe there's a small tweak that wouldn't necessarily fix a flaw, but would have made an already great game even better.

Keep in mind here, I'm talking about changes that could feasibly have been made in the development of the game and wouldn't radically change the gameplay itself. So in other words, not stuff like making the map in an old Zelda game 20x larger or turning Kirby's Adventure into a Streets of Rage-style beat 'em up.

While it's easy to point out things that could be improved with games that you don't particularly love, what changes do you think could make your favorite games even better?

Turn-based RPGs (in general) - Timed hits
While Chrono Trigger is my favorite turn-based RPG, Super Mario RPG is a close second, and a lot of it has to do with the battle system. I like how the timed-hits make me feel like I'm more engaged in controlling the actual battle. One could argue that it may not work as well in an "active" battle system, but even then there could be some sort of indicator of when your character is going to go in for the hit.

The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time - Mix aspects of N64 with 3DS
OoT 3D fixed most of my issues with the original - making the different boots swappable items, speeding up the text, making the aiming easier - but in the process, they brightened the game up so much that the visual aesthetic doesn't have the same impact. This is especially notable during the final fight against Ganon: in the original, he's a dark, fearsome silhouette, but in the 3DS remake you can see everything pretty clearly. A version of the game that takes the fixes in the 3DS remake, but keeps the darker aesthetic of the original would be just about perfect. I also liked the random portraits of Mario characters you can see from Zelda's courtyard in the original as well.

Real Bout Fatal Fury 2 - Integrate the narrative
One of the most appealing aspects of a great fighting game is the cast of characters. Creative visual design, varying movesets, expressive personalities - there's so much to choose from. But I also like how each character has their own backstory; Chun-Li and Guile wants to defeat the dictator to avenge deaths of loved ones in Street Fighter, Hibiki from Last Blade becomes more comfortable with her swordsmanship as she defeats more enemies, etc.. Instead of just transitioning right to the next fight after a victory, adding win quotes here and there could have spiced up RBFF2, give the player more background on why the character is fighting, and would add a sense of accomplishment progressing past a tough enemy who has beaten you multiple times.

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Re: Improving your favorite games?

#2

Post by Sim Kid » Thu Dec 19, 2019 6:07 pm

Tactics Ogre: Let us Cling Together

-Removing/reducing some of those arcane requirements
Because some of these are flat out B.S. Want to recruit Ravness? She has to survive the battle she's a third-party (But aligned against you) in at the end of chapter 1. That makes sense. Then check the news and note how she's going to be killed if you don't save her in chapter 2. Also good. The B.S. part comes from the fact you need to recruit Jenaun, a character with no visible ties to her (he joins you by default at least) then deploy him on a specific mandatory battle map for NO APPARENT REASON then, without any indication you should do so, wait until he says something. Now the last step you can discover by accident, but the issue is the fact that Jenaun is required for Ravness to finally become recruitable. I'm sorry Matsuno, but WHAT THE **** WERE YOU THINKING?!?

Recruiting Ozma is alright - they give you a hint that there's something going on between her and Hobyrim. Check the talk and news and you can see that yes, there is dissent in the Dark Knights. She's supposed to be a secret character, yes, but this is actually much better done - you can in theory actually discover this on your own, and the cutoff isn't several chapters behind so you can even do it on one playthrough.

Want Sherri? Well Olyvia tells you don't kill her. Yeah, that's good enough... you just need to reduce her to critical. But then she retreats. So... where's she now?
...why, you have to go to Balmamusa for no apparent reason when it's raininga nd then she joins. Literally NO OTHER CHARACTER has a requirement like this. I'm sorry, BUT WHAT THE HECK. And this isn't something added to the remake too... this was literally in the original version.

-Make Chaos Frame and loyalty more Visible
Much like in the previous games, you have to maintain a good chaos frame, which is your standing with the ethnicities of the island. Kill a bunch of Galgastani then they won't really like you. Makes sense, right? Well guess what... it depends on which bad ending you get, and can cause these units to defect. Oops. Okay, let's be fair - you don't want that bad ending, but you don't want units defecting. And if you wanna recruit Cressida, you need to be well liked by the Galgastani... guess what most of your enemies are? Correct... Galgastan. Ugggggghhh...

-Change how the levling works

The PSP version changed it so your battle level was tied to your class - not your unit level. This works in its favour when say, you get a pseudo-custom character (ie, Arycelle) as an Archer or something, since they are in theory ready to go right off the bat. Unfortunately, when you get classes available later in the game or the custom classes, they start at level 1... and will get the floor absolutely mopped with them if you sent 'em in battle. This means you have to stop what you're doing and grind 'em. The only way to make the job level increase more is if you have more of them so they gain more experience. Sounds great
...except you have some (ie, Ozma, Caitua, Denam as a Lord) who are unique classes and thus it's only tied to them. So... they will perpetually lag behind you.

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Re: Improving your favorite games?

#3

Post by CaptHayfever » Thu Dec 19, 2019 7:12 pm

Smash: Lag & command buffer in online play.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

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Re: Improving your favorite games?

#4

Post by Booyakasha » Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:29 pm

I'd like it if most games loaded faster.

I mean...I grew up with a Commodore64. Long load times aren't a deal-breaker. But I got this new shmup this year, 'Aces of the Luftwaffe', and the loads are frankly ridiculous. It's like three whole minutes, man. Installed and all. It's a 2D shmup. 'Metal Slug 3' don't need a three-minute load, nor 'Ikaruga', nor 'Raiden 4', and they all run better to boot.
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Re: Improving your favorite games?

#5

Post by Marilink » Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:33 pm

I wish that Chrono Trigger and Trials of Mana, my #1 and #2 favorite games, both had better signposting as to what to do next. They're mostly good, but there's some arcane stuff in there every now and again. Chrono Trigger has a problem where you can skip an entire plot point, then it gets referenced later whether or not you experienced it. SD3 has a few progression points that are literally just "interact with this background element" and sometimes it's super hard to read.

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Re: Improving your favorite games?

#6

Post by Valigarmander » Thu Dec 19, 2019 9:15 pm

I'd like it if the item descriptions in Super Mario RPG actually told you what the item does.

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Re: Improving your favorite games?

#7

Post by Apollo the Just » Thu Dec 19, 2019 9:36 pm

Tales of Symphonia's combo counter is kind of janky. The combo system itself is the core of the battle mechanic, but you can keep up a literally perfect stunlock but sometimes the combo counter just decides you dropped it because you took 1 frame longer than you should have. If the enemy has no opportunity to attack, the combo counter should continue. ESPECIALLY considering you get exp boosts from high combos, and there is a surprising amount of balancing that goes into when you would induce a tech down from a high combo and when to time your Demon Fangs to negate those; the combo counter is more or less reliable-ish but it would be REALLY nice to have it be perfectly accurate because it is arguably the most important mechanic in the battle system.

Also, Genis and Raine's weapon upgrades do absolutely nothing. Their new weapons increase their STR stats, but not their INT stats - Genis and Raine have literally 0 STR-based attacks. They are exclusively spellcasters. You quite literally waste money buying Genis and Raine weapons. So I would give their weapon upgrades bonuses to INT because that is the stat that actually matters for these characters.

Separate costumes from titles. I think the stat boosts from titles is a really interesting growth mechanic, but it sucks that I can't dress up as a pirate without having the crappiest stats in history. OR, at the very least, give the costume titles decent stat boosts - anything above the +0's across the board that make them completely unviable if you want to wear them in NG+.

A lot of people say it should have full free run like Abyss but I disagree because the game is balanced with a lot of aerial momentum around having it feel very much like a traditional 2-D fighting game even though it exists in a 3-D space. If you are good at the game you do not need free run. Free run would completely destroy the way battles work. That said, I do think the AI should be limited to the exact same limitations as the player: can only move left-right relative to the enemy being targeted (changing targets allows for some 3-dimensionality in movement). It is kind of BS that enemies can walk in circles if they want but player characters cannot; it would be interesting to see how it would play if the movement limitations were universal. On the other hand, freeing the AI from that limitation is what helps expand the battle field a bit, so I personally don't mind it. A possible best case scenario might be configuring exact spawn points for your team on the plane at the start of a battle (in the strats menu or something), and then everyone is locked in to left-right limitations other than changing targets from there.

It also would've been nice if it got a good port that didn't halve the fps and break a bunch of ****, but I'm exclusively referring to GC here because that is the version that is my favorite game.

Finally, I would improve it by having the slug at the entrance to Latheon Gorge spawn by the entrance 100% of the time so I would stop losing all of my **** speedruns over 5 hours in.

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Re: Improving your favorite games?

#8

Post by X-3 » Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:09 pm

Bomby wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 5:00 pm

The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time - Mix aspects of N64 with 3DS
OoT 3D fixed most of my issues with the original - making the different boots swappable items, speeding up the text, making the aiming easier - but in the process, they brightened the game up so much that the visual aesthetic doesn't have the same impact. This is especially notable during the final fight against Ganon: in the original, he's a dark, fearsome silhouette, but in the 3DS remake you can see everything pretty clearly. A version of the game that takes the fixes in the 3DS remake, but keeps the darker aesthetic of the original would be just about perfect. I also liked the random portraits of Mario characters you can see from Zelda's courtyard in the original as well.
Preach it!

Link to the Past: Everyone knows Moldorm sucks.

Link Between Worlds: I really wish the Pegasus Boots worked like they did in LttP. The screeching halt you do instead of stopping on a dime is really annoying.

Super Metroid: I wish Missiles were more useful. They make up a bulk of the collectibles but they get outclassed by Super Missiles pretty early.

Bloodborne: The Blood Gem system could use an overhaul, as it now it's pretty bland as 90% of the time you'll just use +% damage gems. Also the Chalice Dungeons aren't too interesting.

DMC3: Completely redo the penultimate boss. All of it.

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Re: Improving your favorite games?

#9

Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:35 pm

I had a lot of changes in mind but since this is limited to "changes that could feasibly have been made in the development of the game" there's not much I'd complain about, at least in old games. I think they generally did what they could.

That said, would it kill JRPGs to have given NPCs different colors? I get they couldn't make each one unique but at least minor color differences so it's not like one dude and his clones run a village. On NES it'd have been maybe impossible, but not on SNES.

More specifically, I wish Ultra Street Fighter II: The Final Challengers allowed us to customize our experience. If we don't want to use a nerfed Chun Li we shouldn't be forced into it. The new grab cancel mechanic is great but not if my character is wrecked. At least include the previous games like how the HD Remix version on PS3 did (and let you swap between different versions' music as you see fit, most of the new OST is inferior).

Make Super Paper Mario turn-based. Done.

Give Sticker Star & Color Splash a good story, fun, meaningful combat, and more varied character types. So basically remake them almost entirely.

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Re: Improving your favorite games?

#10

Post by Bomby » Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:57 am

^ HD Remix on PS3 is probably the closest there is to a "definitive" edition of Street Fighter II, though Hyper Street Fighter II on PS2 is a very, very close second. Not the biggest fan of how they altered Chun-Li's spinning-bird kick on the HD side, but switching to the og graphics fixes that.

Come to think of it, if I got an arcade stick for PS2, I would probably like Hyper more. Too bad I don't have the backward-compatible version of the PS3...

I'm a big fan of the arrangements of the soundtrack on the Super NES edition of Turbo. They should use those arrangements again.

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Re: Improving your favorite games?

#11

Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:57 am

Yeah, I definitely prefer HD Remix overall, but I'm already used to canceling grabs, I know I'll miss that going back. I also agree about the Chun Li SBK, I know what they were going for but without giving it priority it's usefulness is very low and can't be used for meter as well as before. I also think that if they were going to make changes for her then it should've been to her Upkick, make it actually useful for punishing jump-ins.

One more good thing about USFII is the more lenient inputs, I can use Ken and Ryu without it but that makes it much more comfortable and appealing.

I don't remember the SNES music, it's been too long, I'll have to check it out. I do remember it being really good, better than Genesis, but that's usually how it went.
Last edited by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! on Sat Dec 21, 2019 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Improving your favorite games?

#12

Post by I am nobody » Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:41 pm

9 Hours, 9 Persons, 9 Doors could be greatly improved by giving whoever was responsible for "what the hell" being used about two dozen times in the first 10 minutes a thesaurus, and by better editing in general. Virtue's Last Reward could be improved by redesigning Clover and Alice so they actually fit with the rest of the art and by giving Alice more reason to exist in general. Zero Time Dilemma could be improved by doing the same for all of Q Team and by removing Carlos completely, because he's dumb and boring and only there for people who didn't play VLR.

The Witcher 3 could be improved by having more Ciri, I guess? I dunno. This game is basically perfect.

NieR: Automata could be improved by more clearly indicating when you're supposed to move on. It's possible to get into quest chains that aren't meant for the first cycle way early, and I wasted a lot of time on them thinking the game was almost over.

Mass Effect 3 could be improved by making Citadel the real ending. It resolves absolutely nothing about the Reaper plot, sure, but it's an amazing send-off for the characters, and realistically they were what we all played it for anyway. ME 1 could make Kaiden and Ashley more interesting, get rid of them completely, or let me blow both of them up on Virmire.

Persona 5 needs a better combat system. It's a step up from 4, itself a big step up from original 3's trainwreck, but it's still nowhere near engaging enough for the length of the game and the amount of grinding you're expected to do even at low difficulty levels. Tokyo Xanadu got most things about being Persona wrong, but its combat is actually fun, and it could be a good place to start. Just so I have a different change for it, P4 could fix when Nanako says "I already brought it in" on the first day because she enunciates it weirdly and even though everything else she says is fine, it somehow bothers me more than not liking either of Chie's performances for the entire game.

osu! actually made the big improvement I had in mind (clearer performance ranking feedback) and I haven't played it much since, so I got nothing. Get people to be less cringey on the forums?

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Re: Improving your favorite games?

#13

Post by Marilink » Fri Dec 20, 2019 6:26 pm

Valigarmander wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 9:15 pm
I'd like it if the item descriptions in Super Mario RPG actually told you what the item does.
Dude I’m STILL learning about what the friggin items do in that game

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Re: Improving your favorite games?

#14

Post by smol Kat » Fri Dec 20, 2019 6:55 pm

9 Hours, 9 Persons, 9 Doors could be greatly improved by giving whoever was responsible for "what the hell" being used about two dozen times in the first 10 minutes a thesaurus, and by better editing in general.
Thanks for the warning. Greatly looking forward to playing the typo metagame now. :P
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Re: Improving your favorite games?

#15

Post by I am nobody » Fri Dec 20, 2019 7:35 pm

It's not so much typos (although there may be those as well) as it is a general sense that the game was either localized without a native English speaker or that whoever that speaker was didn't try very hard. It all makes sense, but there are plenty of things besides the phrase repetition that just don't quite feel natural.

VLR is much better about that, presumably because 999 performed so much better in the US than in Japan that they put more resources into translation.

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Re: Improving your favorite games?

#16

Post by Bomby » Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:23 am

Shantae (original GBC)
Get rid of the limited lives, reduce screen crunch, make money a bit easier to come by.

Super Mario Bros 3
Battery save, ability to go back to previously beaten levels and worlds like in Super Mario World.

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