Coronavirus/COVID-19

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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19

#301

Post by Shane » Fri May 15, 2020 1:13 pm

This topic has been political for weeks, 100% in one direction, as there are probably only one or two people who may potentially have a dissenting viewpoint (at least openly) who are choosing not to. No objections have been raised until I say maybe we shouldn't just be criticizing one side. Perhaps it shouldn't be political, perhaps we shouldn't be blaming anyone at all, but I will defer to the individual posters/community as long as no rules are being broken.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19

#302

Post by CaptHayfever » Fri May 15, 2020 1:39 pm

We're all on edge right now, & there are certain phrasings that bring to mind certain rehearsed talking points that have been brought up by people we've encountered outside of VGF, so that's likely a factor.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19

#303

Post by smol Kat » Fri May 15, 2020 1:48 pm

I don't know whether it's because I live and work with people who have brains, but the majority of the discourse that I encounter is more toward how to adapt and get through this, as opposed to assigning blame.

And as a note... this has NOTHING to do with censorship. If you agree with me that we shouldn't be assigning blame, don't use the language. Don't be part of the problem and then complain about it. That accomplishes nothing.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19

#304

Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Fri May 15, 2020 2:23 pm

That's a little spicy, but alright.

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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19

#305

Post by steeze » Mon May 18, 2020 9:47 am

Where I live in New York, it is the hardest hit in the world. Everyone is wearing a mask but there are still businesses open. Restaurants are pick-up and drive-through only. You can't walk into any store without one. No one is getting fined or arrested though because the businesses are actually listening to the advice of the government as opposed to some states with citizens who think they can just ignore everything that the state tells them too. I think my view on it is, "I'm not going out so feel free." If all the dummies want to hang out and get sick together I say let loose. One less know-it-all to muddy the waters. It's survival of the smartest, not the fittest. Release the hounds.

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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19

#306

Post by I am nobody » Mon May 18, 2020 9:53 am

Problem being that large enough numbers of people doing that will overwhelm the health system again, not to mention risk exposing workers, neighbors, etc, who didn't choose to ignore advice.

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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19

#307

Post by steeze » Mon May 18, 2020 11:10 am

yeah, you got me there. I don't want things to open but if they have too I'm not going to be fighting tooth and nail to keep things closed.

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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19

#308

Post by Shane » Mon May 18, 2020 6:04 pm

MA began a partial reopening today. This does represent a phased reopening with restrictions that still deems most businesses non-essential and probably will for weeks, but nonetheless is a loosening. We were among the hardest hit, but have been granted more freedom than many to just act responsibly as individuals, which most people have done.

The healthcare system never came close to being overwhelmed. Not even in New York, though some individual hospitals may have been in that situation. There is an argument that is because of the lockdown, but there has been excess capacity throughout.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19

#309

Post by I am nobody » Mon May 18, 2020 6:35 pm

Are you differentiating between a lockdown and voluntary distancing? It seems pretty clear from Wuhan what happens if a major city just tries to do business as usual. NYC got to about 90% ICU capacity at peak even as-is.

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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19

#310

Post by Shane » Tue May 19, 2020 9:41 am

Yes, people will social distance with or without a lockdown. Some people are too afraid to leave their homes for more than essential reasons, which is fine if that is what they want to do. That's how it should be, although people shouldn't be scared into how they behave. Many other people who want to get out understand and were already self enforcing social distancing, enhanced hygiene, and any other recommendations, but it will be more effective to have businesses enforce such policies. This is not a suggestion of business as usual so much as just business... any business at all.

The Javits Center and USS Comfort provided an additional 3500 temporary COVID beds at the start of the lockdown specifically to handle the projected excess demands Both remained largely unused. Even if NYC were at capacity, NY state had 2/3 availability. Though it is a logistical challenge to shuttle people around elsewhere rather than just housing them in the closest facility, it is feasible. Whether they would have reached a breaking point is not something we'll ever know, but they did not actually. During the month of April, hospitals were so underutilized that 1.4 million healthcare workers lost their jobs. Granted, that was in light of the lockdown.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19

#311

Post by smol Kat » Tue May 19, 2020 10:03 am

I shared this elsewhere last night and figured it'd be good to post here. tl;dr don't be afraid of grocery shopping, and continue to not host any large parties.
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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19

#312

Post by I am nobody » Tue May 19, 2020 10:24 am

New York state doesn't have 2/3rds capacity *right now* according to the governor's office. No region has above 51% availability overall, and only the North Country is above 2/3rds even for ICU beds alone. Per the same site, those numbers are with overall and ICU hospitalizations at approximately a third of the peak a month ago. Many, if not the great majority, of the lost healthcare jobs will be in roles like dental hygienists or occupational therapists that weren't useful during an outbreak. I don't think that's a meaningful indicator of utilization.

The 90% figure I mentioned is also with an increase in capacity - the actual usage of ICU beds was well in excess of the pre-outbreak availability, but beds increased by about 1,000 right as it began and continued to increase by smaller amounts until the peak.

Having said that, while I don't agree with your numbers, South Korea, Taiwan, and Vietnam provide evidence enough that it's possible to respond extremely effectively without a lockdown given high trust in the government/society and thorough contact-tracing. Sweden's much-vaunted voluntary lockdown has been less effective (excess mortality is higher than much of Europe) but still better than badly implemented enforced lockdowns (it's lower than the UK), although that's another country with high trust. Whether any of those models could work elsewhere is debatable - Vietnam's almost certainly wouldn't - but it's at least clear that the US model isn't likely to be the one people look to when this is all said and done.

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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19

#313

Post by CaptHayfever » Tue May 19, 2020 11:11 am

^^^You're absolutely right that the majority of people--I would even say the overwhelming majority of people--are being very reasonable with self-enforced distancing, following the rules of the businesses they patronize, et cet. The concern is the vocal minority pulling crap like walking up to & touching strangers while saying it's all a hoax, or punching cashiers for telling them to wear masks.

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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19

#314

Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Tue May 19, 2020 4:00 pm

How many cashiers have been punched for telling customers to wear masks? Some workers are pricks about it, by the way, so I can very well see them earning it. I forgot my mask but the store didn't require them just the other day anyway, and I was already there by the time I realized it; when I went in the jackass approached me as if he were a bouncer at a club ready to get physical. His attitude was aggressive and he spoke in a demeaning fashion. If he had come any closer then he'd have been home and safe from the virus for the foreseeable future.

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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19

#315

Post by I am nobody » Tue May 19, 2020 4:13 pm

"I almost punched a staffer in the face" is an odd way to finish a post that started out questioning whether they were getting punched in the face.

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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19

#316

Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Tue May 19, 2020 4:22 pm

I didn't question whether it's occurred at all, and a bulk of the post was basically about them probably deserving it.

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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19

#317

Post by Calamity Panfan » Tue May 19, 2020 4:30 pm

lol

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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19

#318

Post by CaptHayfever » Tue May 19, 2020 5:17 pm

^^Private property. They have the right to keep you out if you don't follow their rules. You do not have the right to punch them in the face.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19

#319

Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Tue May 19, 2020 5:48 pm

CaptHayfever wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 5:17 pm
^^Private property. They have the right to keep you out if you don't follow their rules. You do not have the right to punch them in the face.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"
Incorrect. I do if they approach me in an aggressive manner.

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Re: Coronavirus/COVID-19

#320

Post by Calamity Panfan » Tue May 19, 2020 6:07 pm

lol

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